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    Open discussion how to improve/handle Clan Wars

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    Gandalf
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    Open discussion how to improve/handle Clan Wars

    Post by Gandalf on Tue 29 Jul 2014, 01:25

    I would like to have an open discussion on how RrU should handle/improve Clan Wars. Below I have listed the ideas that came in from David and bLAzE as a starting point. I would appreciate as many of opinions as possible as in the end there will be rule changes and I do not want to find out that people still do not agree upon implementation of the updated rules. Like said in chat yesterday we would like to avoid weekly changes to our rules and create some stability
     

    1. First attack is against the person of your ranking in the enemy clan. If you are number 10 in our clan, you will attack number 10 in the enemy clan. This will make attacking more organized and fair. Discuss in clan chat about strategies and advice on how to attack the enemy clan for 2 stars (preferably). Members can take to a co-leader or elder if they want to swap with another member.
    2. Your first attack will take place in the first 12 hours of the war. Your second attack will take place in the last 12 hours. This gives people enough time to get their first attack in on the person of their skill level.
    3. No bases should be the same design. If they are, the enemy clan will attack the same way to get easy stars.
    4. People not wanting to participate in Clan War step out just before the war search start and after the search has been started are invited back in immediately. To deal with the minimum donations requirement there are two options:


    • A couple of volunteers keep track of the donation before war. E.g bLAzE leaves before war with 266 donations (which gets reset after he joins back; thus the need to keep track). And upon return he gained another 156 donations, giving him the required 400. One/ some of the volunteers will afterwards message Gandalf/ Ron about who is clear.
    • To be allowed to leave and save the hassle of keeping track, the leavers must already have the 400 donations beforehand or they won't be allowed back in. Also, this means in the last week of the season, people with 'new' below their name will be safe cause they had the 400 before and that’s why they are still in the clan. 
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    Slackers

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    Re: Open discussion how to improve/handle Clan Wars

    Post by Slackers on Tue 29 Jul 2014, 02:50

    1. Like this very much. Fair attacks first.
    2. Not sure if there should be a time set on this. I mean people do have to sleep and might have work/school right after that which makes timing your attacks really hard. Sometimes i use mine both in 1 hour in the early state or late state of the war. Which means 2 wars inside of the 12 hours shifts. If i end up in the late state plenty of people have used their attacks cause they where unable to attack late so they try and give it their best shot early. This makes it unable for me to attack any target around my level at all.
    3. Kinda hard. When i have a base i feel comfortable with and someone else coperini pasterino's it, i might have to change mine due to someone else not sticking to the rules.But i do like this idea though. Another con is that a new base might have been designed which works perfectly for TH8/9/10 to defend in CW and everyone starts using it cause everyone only gets 0/1 starred by using this design. That would mean this rule becomes un relevant
    4. Impossible, What if someone is unable to be online at the start of the war search? This would mean someone is unable to leave while he doesn't want to do a cw. I think everyone should just adapt and deal with CW it's a great addition to the game which everyone has it's own opinion on. But if we want to be a top clan ones again we should either have only people in the clan that do want to do clan war. That is my opinion on this matter.


    In my honest opinion this is what i would like to say about it:
    I think the CW issue is the same as for donations. Plenty of people do want to stick with the clan but are not trying/willing to try to be more active in donations and be great team players by putting more effort in the clan.
    If you do not like to join in the clan wars or donate as much as the requirements ask from you, you are already showing not as much motivation as the clan wants you to show.

    This is holding us back form becoming a top clan ones again imo. I think the best thing is to get stricter rules on activity. So only the best of the best will stick with us and all less actives will have to find a home suiting their wishes better then our clan does.

    NOTE: THIS IS SAID AS A PERSONAL OPINION WITHOUT THINKING ABOUT MY ROLE AS ELDER.
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    Gandalf
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    Re: Open discussion how to improve/handle Clan Wars

    Post by Gandalf on Tue 29 Jul 2014, 03:01

    Before I give feedback on the proposed ideas I first would like to mention that I think one of the reasons we have been stable and successful as a clan is that we keep things simple and we are having rules in place that are respected. Nobody has ever been kicked for any other reason than violating one of the rules. For this reason I am in favor of keeping things simple. Therefor in my mind we first need to decide whether or not we are a war clan or not. If we are full dedication and participation is required and people need to train troops to collect 2-3 stars on their battles. We cannot continue in clan wars where we do not know if people will contribute or start questioning if it still makes sense to use their attacks as this is not fair to the people that already tried hard to win some stars and will drive overall morale down in the clan. Being half pregnant in clan wars does not work! In summary if we are going to be a war clan we need to be able to TRUST each other. I would like to be a war clan and make refinements to our rules to increase the chances of winning the battles. Therefore I like the first two ideas. We could extend the first attack period to accommodate our daily schedules, persons that want their second attack in before the first attack period ends are only allowed to go for bases that are already attacked. I do not like the idea of people stepping out and coming back in all the time as this goes against the rule to keep things simple e.g. how long we give people to leave before we start search, forgetting to record the number of dons, arguments over the number of dons. My 50 cents

    ..bLAzE..

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    Re: Open discussion how to improve/handle Clan Wars

    Post by ..bLAzE.. on Tue 29 Jul 2014, 10:59

    I like number 4 and I disagree with slackers point that it is impossible. Impossible is a big word to describe this, right? If someone really doesn't want to do war, they will make the effort to be online and leave before the search. Anyways, a little more hard work isn't bad if it makes members of the clan happier. Also, about slackers point about only keeping clan war members in, isnt this clan still a farming clan? And a big part of farming is gaining resources but thats harder if some members are invlolved in clan wars un-willingly thus their attacks are less likely to gain stars.

    E.G
     Half the members don't want to do Clan Wars, so they probably do a half hearted attack and in the end, they fail. But only the willing members get 2-3 stars and we lose. So just keep those willing members in! There is nothing so hard to cope with this, people just don't want it cause they are war crazy, well this works both ways. Un-willing members dont participate (so they are happy) and willing members know that everyone will do 2 good attacks gaining a number of stars. Simple (just how gandalf likes it)

    And also, the 'half pregnant' idea (what gandalf calls the leave and join back idea) does work, the other day I was reading Tom's clan's rules, and one of them stated that people can leave and join back if they can't or don't want to do clan wars.

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    Re: Open discussion how to improve/handle Clan Wars

    Post by Banebringer on Tue 29 Jul 2014, 11:07

    hey guys, gonna say a couple of things so bear with me. i hope no party takes personal offense, what i'm saying is for our collective growth.

    before i came over to RrU i was the 'war officer/colead' in that clan. my personal observation/feeling when i joined RrU was that it wasnt really serious about wars. why? i'll try to explain

    A. What wins wars? Only one thing. Stars. The only thing that should matter is getting stars. 

    At the moment, we have loads of people (myself included - i've gotten complacent) who arent focusing on this. Gandalf himself barely gets any stars. I think this is a bad example. All TH8s should be 3 starred in every war. Weaker and preemie TH9s should be 3 starred as well. Everything else 2 starred. Ignore TH10s until everything else is hit. The top 5 in our clan should hold off on the 2nd attack to see if they need to hit one of the enemy higher ups (should not default hitting the top enemies, remember, focus on stars). We need to hit the HIGHEST GUARANTEED 2-star (mid TH9 above) or 3-star (TH8 and new TH9) at our skill level. Examle: I see Ballz saying a lot of "i think i can 2star #4", and people saying to go for it. Sorry, that kind of tactic is too risky. Go for guaranteed stars. Mistakes may happen, but if you're a 1month old TH9 hitting a mid-advanced TH10 and you failed your attack, it's your fault. FOCUS ON STARS.

    Now, this doesnt mean you hit their #45 or #50 when you're a TH10. You have to try to hit the highest you can safely 2star (TH9 above) or 3star (TH8s and some TH9s). There'll be some chaos to this at first, but eventually people will start to figure out their skill/power level.

    As for something we can implement, i suggest our first attack be on a safe target. After this, we know where we stand and we'll know if we can take a little more risk with our 2nd attack.

    B. Forget about the loot bonus

    Right now we have a few ppl focused on the loot bonus. I've also read people being proud of their loot bonus. This shouldnt really happen. If we're winning clearly, then by all means your 2nd attack can be riskier. Loot bonus should be a secondary reward for doing well. Primary reward should be being proud of your stars and contribution. This sorta ties in to point #1 as well. When choosing your first target, the loot bonus should have little effect on said choice.

    C. Going all out

    When i first joined the clan, I warred as how i warred in my previous clan. I scouted my enemies early, observed from the initial declaration how many troops were being donated to my target's war castle to determine the contents (example, seeing 5/30, then 10/30, i'd know the enemy war castle would have primarily archers). I then tailored my army and spell composition specifically for that enemy, and planned my points of attack properly. Resources spent wasnt an issue. My first two wars here, I got 6 stars in each. Now I don't care.

    Some people's attacks are just half arsed. Before the recent hog-nerf, hogs were a guaranteed 3 star on any TH9 whose cc you could lure and if you weren't stupid. Yet I saw some people using mass drag and being content with 1-2 stars. Example: In one case I asked Broman why he chose to do mass dragon, he said he was saving DE for upgrades. I'm sure some others act the same way, and this attitude no doubt persists even now.

    Hogs are still a viable choice to 3star some bases, if only you take the time to plan your attack. Also, throwing 10 dragons doesnt really make it a 'proper' attack.

    If the clan isnt going all out for all wars that we choose to fight, then don't expect to win. It's better to save the resources and keep farming. I admit even I dont really bother with our wars much now. I just hit something i suspect i can 2-star, and if i 1 star, the reaction is a shrug and 'oh well'. I know others do the same.

    -------

    With regards to the opt-in/out of wars, that won't work. If you're a member of the clan, then you follow the schedule of warring frequency. If you want to pure farm, then go to a clan that doesnt war. Exception is of course people on vacation, which i think this clan handles well with the notifications. On this note, temporarily leave the clan if you're being 'inactive' for no reason or taking a break from coc.

    "No same design" for bases i think is unreasonable. While enemies can technically follow a successful attack strategy on two of our mostly identical bases, the attack composition, troop levels and defense levels can add affect attack results differently. We shouldnt force some people to use designs that they dont like just because someone else is using their preferred design 'first'.

    The 12hour/12hour attack pattern could be good - but i have no preference, the ones who need to hold off the most are our top 10. Like i said above, first attack used immediately for guaranteed stars. Second attack some risk can be taken if clearly winning. If not, use 2nd attack to get as many guaranteed stars as possible. Our top 5-10 players hold off on their 2nd attack to see if they can get more stars cleaning up some failed attacks, or if everyone's done their job perfectly, then the top 5-10 can attack the top enemies for 1-2 additional stars.
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    Slackers

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    Re: Open discussion how to improve/handle Clan Wars

    Post by Slackers on Tue 29 Jul 2014, 11:37

    ..bLAzE.. wrote:I like number 4 and I disagree with slackers point that it is impossible. Impossible is a big word to describe this, right? If someone really doesn't want to do war, they will make the effort to be online and leave before the search. Anyways, a little more hard work isn't bad if it makes members of the clan happier. Also, about slackers point about only keeping clan war members in, isnt this clan still a farming clan? And a big part of farming is gaining resources but thats harder if some members are invlolved in clan wars un-willingly thus their attacks are less likely to gain stars.

    E.G
     Half the members don't want to do Clan Wars, so they probably do a half hearted attack and in the end, they fail. But only the willing members get 2-3 stars and we lose. So just keep those willing members in! There is nothing so hard to cope with this, people just don't want it cause they are war crazy, well this works both ways. Un-willing members dont participate (so they are happy) and willing members know that everyone will do 2 good attacks gaining a number of stars. Simple (just how gandalf likes it)

    And also, the 'half pregnant' idea (what gandalf calls the leave and join back idea) does work, the other day I was reading Tom's clan's rules, and one of them stated that people can leave and join back if they can't or don't want to do clan wars.

    Quick reply to your point of view:
    Yes impossible is a big word indeed, but what if you live in a timezone where leaving a few hours before the war search starts is impossible for you? Set your alarm every day at a certain time? This does make things difficult for the members and as Gand states it has to stay simple. So quiet impossible for a verified redit clan to do this since we got members from all over the world.

    And yes we where indeed a farm clan, but farming has been undefineable for a reason which made a change to redit clan deffinitions. Now you got regular and pushing clans. We belong to the regular ones. I personally do nit know what makes us mire farming then other clans. Most likely since the activity issometimes far to seek. And farming clans most likely end up with loads of donations due to massive amounts of raids being madem i only see a few people actually raid a lit and request over and over. So i doubt we would even fit in the definition of a farming clan if there even would be a clear definition since everyone actually does raid for llot to save up and keep your builders busy.

    About the half pregnant thing, it simply won't work as thinngs have to stay simple. As Gandalf already pointed out, keeping track of those leaving and joining back and keeping track of their donations is very hard. Most likely the big time zone differences make it even harder. Not to forget it all has to stay simple. To add up my point of bei g unable to do suchs things due to timezone differences, work, school.


    Last edited by Slackers on Wed 30 Jul 2014, 01:06; edited 3 times in total
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    Slackers

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    Re: Open discussion how to improve/handle Clan Wars

    Post by Slackers on Tue 29 Jul 2014, 17:54

    Well spoken Banebringer!

    The most annying thing imo is people not going full out. They just attack cause they have to, some even use barch...

    I mean seriously barch in cw? Where is your teamspirit? We are either all in this together or not. Imo we should always use all of our attacks unless really not able to. And go for the good results not for the loot or easy raids just because you have to attack.


    So that leaves us with the quedtion, are we doing cw's or not? If so, is 2 to much?
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    Ron Mexico 88

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    Re: Open discussion how to improve/handle Clan Wars

    Post by Ron Mexico 88 on Tue 29 Jul 2014, 18:00

    Guys I agree with Gand in that we need to keep things simple. Much of our success as a clan has been because we kept things simple and fair rules. Also like Gand said we need to figure out if we are a farming clan or if we want to be a War clan.

    I personally think we can be both that we just need to see how serious we want to be about the CWs. Right now I think that we have been doing fairly decent, with our half committed cw rules. Personally I want to be a farming clan still, everybody here farms of course and everything is peaceful for the most part. But I also think that it is fun to attack stronger bases and to see how strong of a clan we are. And I think we can do both. But we need to figure out where we are going first.
     
    Do we want to make cws mandatory:
     
    I am starting to feel that if we are going to have cws then lets do them right with attacking ideas along the lines of what bane was saying. So Yes I want cws and I think that they should be mandatory or you should be kicked
     
    Scheduling:
     
    My initial idea was to have 2-3 cw every other week. (two wars one week|skip a week| two wars)
     
    I lean to the 2 every other week for a few reasons. One, I think that spacing them out like this will get people more excited for them which = more people willing and wanting to participate which= more wins = more loot. Two, I feel that because we are a farming clan also that gives use plenty of time to farm and upgrade heroes and such for cws since we are a farming clan.

    Participation:

    I like the idea that Gand came up with about the percentage and if we are under and you haven't attacked then you are kicked. I think we can do that some more but just make it more strict and even raise the bar a little by making sure that everybody at least attacks once. My idea is that because we have only 2-3 every other week we set the bar very very high even if we say that you must you both your attacks unless we are up by 20.

    Either way we are going to have to stick with what we come up with. We set the rules and if people follow them even if they are barely skimming by, they still qualify and you cannot get mad at them.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Blaze and David's Idea about leaving before the clan. I already know as an administrator's point of view this wont work. It will create problems and confusion which will result in people being upset, bring drama to the clan which isn't good. Also with people leaving and stuff doesn't help us as a clan with people in our clan not participating in clan activities. As for the attacking idea I can see it as an option, but first we need to see how much of a commitment we are wanting from out clan. For that to workout we need everyone to attack and right now we don't have that from everyone at the moment. Plus I don't really think that we have problems with who we are attacking. I think that in general most people attack within their own place in the clan. I haven't really seen or herd anyone complaining about that.

    Bane brings up some really good points in the way that we should be attacking in that every th8 or lower should be 3*, and that our top players should hold out until the end to see if we need to attack one of their top player or just try and get an easier * by attacking a lower person. We have kind already had an understanding about those rules but we haven't put "written them in stone" yet because we haven't talked about how serious we want to be in cws.
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    Gandalf
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    Re: Open discussion how to improve/handle Clan Wars

    Post by Gandalf on Tue 29 Jul 2014, 23:46

    Good discussion and input, I like it! I think one conclusion we can already draw is that opting out of clan wars by stepping out will not be an option. I fully agree with the mantra of Banebringer:

    • Go for stars
    • Forget about the loot
    • Going all out

    We only need to figure out how this can be enforced and translated into simple rules e.g. go for the highest target you can safely 2-star is already in our Clan War strategy guide but not adhered to. I still believe the rules should be simple but in addition we need a culture change by fully adopting and embracing clan wars, follow the above mantra and speak up to each other if the mantra is not followed.

    Please continue discussion to really narrow it down what we want to do and change
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    Gandalf
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    Re: Open discussion how to improve/handle Clan Wars

    Post by Gandalf on Tue 29 Jul 2014, 23:50

    Banebringer wrote:Gandalf himself barely gets any stars. I think this is a bad example.

    I do agree Banebringer Sad. Still trying to master GoWiPe that eventually should be a guaranteed 2-star on any base Smile
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    Slackers

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    Re: Open discussion how to improve/handle Clan Wars

    Post by Slackers on Wed 30 Jul 2014, 01:10

    Gandalf wrote:Good discussion and input, I like it! I think one conclusion we can already draw is that opting out of clan wars by stepping out will not be an option. I fully agree with the mantra of Banebringer:

    • Go for stars
    • Forget about the loot
    • Going all out

    We only need to figure out how this can be enforced and translated into simple rules e.g. go for the highest target you can safely 2-star is already in our Clan War strategy guide but not adhered to. I still believe the rules should be simple but in addition we need a culture change by fully adopting and embracing clan wars, follow the above mantra and speak up to each other if the mantra is not followed.

    Please continue discussion to really narrow it down what we want to do and change

    TBH i think not enough people did respond out if we should even continue with clan wars. In my honest opinion it looks like only the motivated players are in the discussion atm trying to improve the results all together.

    I think we have to wait and see for arguments against CWs.

    But yes furthermore great discussion so far and narrowing it down on how to improve it by keeping things simple is a good way to follow up the discussion.

    Gandalf wrote:
    Banebringer wrote:Gandalf himself barely gets any stars. I think this is a bad example.

    I do agree Banebringer Sad. Still trying to master GoWiPe that eventually should be a guaranteed 2-star on any base Smile

    If you do not do this already you might want to start watching how famous youtubers do use GoWiPe and learn from their ways of attacking certain bases.

    Sir

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    Re: Open discussion how to improve/handle Clan Wars

    Post by Sir on Wed 30 Jul 2014, 04:08

    1.) This can have some flaws in this idea. We've been up against much harder clans than ours. (Ex. Someone ranked 10 th9 would go against ranked  10 th10 and he would have inferno towers. Those are a big no if they are high leveled.)

    2.) I would prefer no attack time schedule for many reasons. My first reason is i like to get both attacks in ASAP so I can go back to farming and get us good vibes for the next people's attacks. My second reason is for the people of the exact opposite, some like to use both attacks the second day because they are less busy.

    3.) A very hard thing to do. The best we could get is to change some of our lower th9s bases with different variations. Any th8 can be 3 starred with the right comp so they should just worry about getting a good base together.

    4.) Near impossible, keeping track would involve a lot of remembering and more stress. Also if someone leaves and we don't know they wouldn't have a way back in and wouldn't come back.

    EXTRA INFO: Just like bane said we need to not worry about loot bonus. I attack high the top bases occasionally and successfully and get a nice loot bonus, but I am mainly concerned with stars just like others should be.
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    Ron Mexico 88

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    Re: Open discussion how to improve/handle Clan Wars

    Post by Ron Mexico 88 on Wed 30 Jul 2014, 04:29

    Slackers wrote:
    Gandalf wrote:Good discussion and input, I like it! I think one conclusion we can already draw is that opting out of clan wars by stepping out will not be an option. I fully agree with the mantra of Banebringer:

    • Go for stars
    • Forget about the loot
    • Going all out

    We only need to figure out how this can be enforced and translated into simple rules e.g. go for the highest target you can safely 2-star is already in our Clan War strategy guide but not adhered to. I still believe the rules should be simple but in addition we need a culture change by fully adopting and embracing clan wars, follow the above mantra and speak up to each other if the mantra is not followed.

    Please continue discussion to really narrow it down what we want to do and change

    TBH i think not enough people did respond out if we should even continue with clan wars. In my honest opinion it looks like only the motivated players are in the discussion atm trying to improve the results all together.

    I think we have to wait and see for arguments against CWs.

    But yes furthermore great discussion so far and narrowing it down on how to improve it by keeping things simple is a good way to follow up the discussion.

    Gandalf wrote:
    Banebringer wrote:Gandalf himself barely gets any stars. I think this is a bad example.

    I do agree Banebringer Sad. Still trying to master GoWiPe that eventually should be a guaranteed 2-star on any base Smile

    If you do not do this already you might want to start watching how famous youtubers do use GoWiPe and learn from their ways of attacking certain bases.


    Slackers: We probably wont get too many other people to reply. And to who has replyed these are our more active people and people who matter the most.  Smile  But I agree I think we should wait a little bit longer before making any decisions.

    Gand: Yeah if you need some people to learn from I can find you some youtubers who are great at it. I am sure you can learn a few little things maybe that you might not have thought of. If not at least it will give you tons of replays you can watch.
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    Gandalf
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    Re: Open discussion how to improve/handle Clan Wars

    Post by Gandalf on Wed 30 Jul 2014, 06:00

    Ron Mexico 88 wrote:
    Slackers wrote:
    Gandalf wrote:
    Banebringer wrote:Gandalf himself barely gets any stars. I think this is a bad example.

    I do agree Banebringer Sad. Still trying to master GoWiPe that eventually should be a guaranteed 2-star on any base Smile
    If you do not do this already you might want to start watching how famous youtubers do use GoWiPe and learn from their ways of attacking certain bases.
    Gand: Yeah if you need some people to learn from I can find you some youtubers who are great at it. I am sure you can learn a few little things maybe that you might not have thought of. If not at least it will give you tons of replays you can watch.
    Believe me I have watched a ton and even went to GoWiPe acadamy but when doing it yourself it's a different game as everything seems to go twice as fast Shocked but I will take any new youtubers I can learn from so bring m on

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    Re: Open discussion how to improve/handle Clan Wars

    Post by Eidwripper123 on Wed 30 Jul 2014, 08:13

    I have an idea, we should have a poll if we should be a war clan or not and most votes wins. I think that if we are going to war we should go all out when we do, or not war at all.
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    BallsJr

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    Re: Open discussion how to improve/handle Clan Wars

    Post by BallsJr on Wed 30 Jul 2014, 10:06

    I do agree with me doing poorly in the past 2 wars. I was getting very confident because I 2 starred quite a few th10s in the wars previous to these past 2. I agree that all th8s must be 3 starred. 

    Regarding the top 4 ideas:
    1: nah, sometimes they have too many th10s and the war isn't always evenly matched. I think it's a good idea in theory but many people just would either get a target too easy or too difficult usually. We could try it for certain wars but it just seems like some bases are set up to be VERY difficult to attack and some people have mastered strategies that may not work on that first base. I do agree that we need more organization.
    2: pass, again. same as slackers
    3: I think no more than 3 of the same base in the wars. Too easy.
    4: LOVE the idea... in theory. I think the biggest reason we lose wars is because we use 76/100 attacks or 68/90. SO many unused attacks. Even if you don't think you can get a star you NEED to go all out. I'd love to have people leave and come back if they don't want to war but it's sloppy. 

    Clan wars changed a LOT of things. We are listed as a social clan, not too competitive, but more casual. We're more of a clan that wants to be between social and competitive, but not a war clan. WARS are so that people help out the rest of the clan so we can get the WAR LOOT. We do get a lot of tough matchups, especially against th10s...but guess what, it's because we have high level troops and we SHOULD get paired against high levels. We have the whole clan almost at th9/th10. 

    We CAN'T practice new strategies during a close war. Practice them on your own raids, not the war raids unless we are losing for sure. I tried GOWIPE when we were down 53-98 with 10 minutes because I USED my attack and it didn't cause any detrimental repercussions to the clan. GO ALL OUT IS A GREAT STRATEGY.

    GREED. That's why we don't win a ton of wars. I think that we ought to say "stop looking at the loot bonus we get if you win against that base. Notice: I WAS GUILTY THE PAST 2 WARS FOR THIS. We all like loot. But guess what. That loot sucks when we lose because you'd probably get less than you'd get if you got more stars on lower bases. DON'T LOOK AT THE LOOT BONUS ANYMORE. It hurt me, and I'm very sorry for bringing down the clan because I lost the last 2 wars. I got too cocky because I kept doing well against th10s. 

    If we actually work together and use ALL of our attacks, we can actually win wars and help morale in the clan. It sucks to see "good try guys" after a loss, because we shouldn't lose! Think about this... each person should get 3 stars in the war. Aim for 3 stars. More is great, but if you don't get 3, then that stinks. I know this is unrealistic because that means a perfect war but come on. 3 stars shouldn't be too hard! There are a lot of things that go into wars and we're a team. Help your clan, not yourself. I'd rather see 95/100 attacks with 100 stars at the end of the war rather than 80/100 attacks with 102 stars at the end though. Use your attacks.

    ..bLAzE..

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    Re: Open discussion how to improve/handle Clan Wars

    Post by ..bLAzE.. on Fri 01 Aug 2014, 06:50

    Ron Mexico 88 wrote:Scheduling:
     
    My initial idea was to have 2-3 cw every other week. (two wars one week|skip a week| two wars)
     
    I lean to the 2 every other week for a few reasons. One, I think that spacing them out like this will get people more excited for them which = more people willing and wanting to participate which= more wins = more loot. Two, I feel that because we are a farming clan also that gives use plenty of time to farm and upgrade heroes and such for cws since we are a farming clan.


    I quite like Ron's idea about the 2 wars every other week, or maybe even 1 every week. I find myself trying my best on the wednesday war and if we lose, i get all upset and then I  think about the War straight after and its a real bummer knowing that if you lose that as well, you've just lost ~700k loot in just a matter of days, why not 1 so if we lose, people could have the week to recover
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    Slackers

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    Re: Open discussion how to improve/handle Clan Wars

    Post by Slackers on Wed 06 Aug 2014, 03:03

    Over at Reddit Troopers (57 war wins in a row lost the last war by a cheating clan) they got a rule that everyone must participate in all wars. If not they get a booth. This is how they manage to get this huge of a win streak.

    So if we would decide to become a more active war clan i think there might be an option to make participation required unless inactivity notice or excuse due to suddenly things come up in private.
    I mean it can not be that hard to grab your phone/tablet/phablet/laptop/pc to log in train an army and get back 2/5 hours later to raid and do this twice in 2 days.



    So the key answer to improve on our war results starts with activity.
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    Gandalf
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    Re: Open discussion how to improve/handle Clan Wars

    Post by Gandalf on Fri 08 Aug 2014, 04:13

    Okay lets try to wrap this up but first I would like to clarify 1 thing as part of the discussion has been around whether or not we are a farming clan. In the RCS farming clans do not exist anymore. There are only general and competitive clans. When farming clans still existed they were only defined by clans that usually have higher-level players, and focus on resources instead of trophies/achievements. There was nothing mentioned about war participation or pushing. In general all clashers are farmers and in the good old days the clans that were most active, hence higher-level players, were classified as farming clans. We are a war clan that farms or a farming clan doing wars, I do not mind how we label ourselves but lets put this discussion to rest. 

    Now the main conclusion from the discussion. Basically there are only two ways to improve on Clan Wars:

    1. More participants;
    2. Earn more stars per attack;
    3. Lose less stars per attack.

    It is that simple. To address these 3 points my proposal is the following changes to our rules:

    • We increase the participation requirement from 75% to 80%;
    • First attack should be on the highest target on the map you can safely 2-star. This target should be scouted, the attack strategy should be planned and a strong army capable of making the 2-star should be trained as well as the appropriate spells (only exception when spell factory is being upgraded). A first attack on a base that has already been 2-starred is a no-go area.
    • Clan castle should be 'centralized' and TH should be well protected inside your base



    Our mantra as nicely brought up by Banebringer will be:

    • Go for stars
    • Forget about the loot
    • Going all out


    Any violation of the above will result in removal from the clan. In addition I do believe we need to coach each other on how to improve our attacks as a person could be going all out with a strong army but still not make the 2-star because of lack of experience with that army. Instead of complaining about this it would be better to talk to the person and give tips on how to improve.

    Please provide your final feedback and thoughts to sharpen it up. I will keep the discussion open for a few more days to include the final feedback into the update of the rules.
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    BallsJr

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    Re: Open discussion how to improve/handle Clan Wars

    Post by BallsJr on Fri 08 Aug 2014, 10:39

    I think that we may be a bit too lenient of some attacks. I agree with everything stated above by Gandalf, and I know that things aren't going to be implemented IMMEDIATELY but I've seen people use weak armies to 1 star and when we ask why, they either don't respond or they just say "better than a 0 star". I think that type of mindset isn't okay. 

    I've seen many people be kicked but there are still a few in there who won't listen and I hope that ends up changing! Also, mass drags is a great strategy but we should try to expand a bit more on the th9s. We focus on 2 starring but as we're becoming a clan of TH9s, we should try to 3 star a bit more! Again, we do get some 3 stars, but most people (myself included, I am trying to become better) need to try to 3 star the really low levels. I think a th9 2 starring a TH8 and saying "yes, that was a good attack" shouldn't really happen very often. Yes, it's great, but we should be able to 3 star all the TH8s. Just my opinion, excited for the new rules! Love the new % requirement! I'll be trying harder to get better armies to get bases!
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    Slackers

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    Re: Open discussion how to improve/handle Clan Wars

    Post by Slackers on Fri 08 Aug 2014, 22:21

    I do agree on what Gand and Balls had to say about this. The only flaw i agree on most as Ballz says some people simply do not communicate. When you want to give them feedback or when you do have questions for them.

    Using 100 archers for example shouldn't be allowed. That is half a TH8 army of not much power. Don't expect to 2/3star a well build TH8 base with 100 archers and some tanky troops. Most likely not when you release the tanky ones after the archers died. Just using an example here from past war. Not trying to bully on a person or anything but i think if we do want to improve attacks MUST be discussed in chat or at least attempt to discuss it with what others think you could do best before you go to raid.

    Also on the activity i would say make it 85/90%, even 100% would be fine by me Very Happy. Using your attacks is quiet important for the clan to attempt on a win. No attempts used is less chance of winning. Everyone has to put in effort imo.
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    Gandalf
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    Re: Open discussion how to improve/handle Clan Wars

    Post by Gandalf on Fri 08 Aug 2014, 22:55

    I agree with you both but with the second bullet on the rules update we will no longer tolerate half-baked attacks. If this occurs people should be spoken to in chat and if they don't listen there lifetime expectancy in RrU will be short. Regarding participation I do not want to raise the bar too high and prefer a step-wise approach when it is needed. I think we are building some momentum and feel we have improvement in this area already.
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    Slackers

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    Re: Open discussion how to improve/handle Clan Wars

    Post by Slackers on Sat 09 Aug 2014, 00:21

    I do understand the point in the activity change. I believe a small change will be of great help as well. It can filter out the less active ones.

    On the effort being put into an attack i think this new rule would change how things are going in a good way.

    I got no further input on this discussion i think ot's quiet clear what needs to be done.

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    Re: Open discussion how to improve/handle Clan Wars

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